DADASHEV INTERVIEW: HOW I HELPED KASPAROV
14th september 1990
Newspaper: "Literaturnaya Rossiya" # 37 (1441)
There is a document before us. The frank acknowledgement of a person because of whom appeared unexpectable circumstances and episodes, which strongly affected the struggle of two chess giants for the benefit of one of them. Such a sincerity can't leave anyone indifferent. Acquaintance with Dadashev revelation takes us out of the common understanding of the surrounding world, and appears the will in one case to check the presence of something unknown, uninvestigated in the capabilities of human psychics, and in another case - to step immediately in the search of truth over the horizon of known. Of coarse, the reader can have a lot of such wills. However, there are enough of facts in the Dadashev report for any procession of them (analysis, comparison, finding out, thinking). It will be quite possible to understand everything. Only at the beginning for the general orientation, it will be interesting to find from the additional sources the following… First of all, - who is Dadashev. We accustomed to be late. And from Dadashev abroad write more and more gratefully. And perceive ambiguously. Let us get acquainted … Italian art critics found a clairvoyant in Dadashev, when they investigated the created by him psychological portrait of Dzhokonda, from the Leonardo da Vindzhi masterpiece reproduction. This work now is in Louvre, Paris. Klivff Baxter, the leading in USA scientist in the field of psychoenergetics and criminalistics (the author of well known "lie detector"), after the experiments with Dadashev at the International Psychoenergetics Congress in Prague, called him the "strongest medium in the world". At last, quite unexpectedly, KGB general I. Gorelovsky via the press officially thanked Dadashev as a real predictor of events. Exactly his advises as a parapsychologist, the first time in their practical work permitted to successfully complete the difficult operation. The offender was neutralized who threatened to burst the airplane with passengers at the runway in the Bina airport…" So, clairvoyant, medium, parapsychologist-predictor… Who is he at last? When Dadashev helped Kasparov to become a world champion he showed himself as the first, second and the third. Let us give word to Kasparov himself at that time when he publicly called Dadashev as "my guru", "my talisman". He wrote: "The understanding of Dadashev, of his capabilities lies over the utmost part of human thinking. The unlimited capabilities of his intellect and subconscious vision sharply contrast with our everyday life… Every time when I spoke to him, I felt the constant surge of forces and believe in the achievement of the ultimate end. Today we can bravely say that Dadashev has greatly moved apart our traditional understanding about the capabilities of human psychics and intuition and also about his exceptionally wholesome influence at people. I think that the continuity of this connection is the main merit of super gifted man and subtle psychologist Tofik Dadashev. Garry Kasparov, Word Chess Champion 2.7.86". To the honor of Kasparov, he didn't change himself in this appraisal, even when he got in a difficult situation in the beginning of 1988. At that time the "Moscow News" editor E. Yakovlev received the text of Dadashev interview "Revelation". Dadashev wanted to say openly the truth about his participation in the destiny of chess player Kasparov, who could become a world chess champion from the hopeless condition, when he received a necessary psychological support in the competition with Karpov. The head of "MN" was interested in this material. He met the author of talk and asked, if it is possible, to meet the next day with Dadashev in the editorial office. However privately Kasparov also was invited at this meeting. At sudden "confrontation" was expected a scandalous, in the presence of workers, accusation of authors of the presented heresy, in the lie and treachery: Kasparov will refuse of the fabrication. But quite opposite took place. "I read the "Revelation", here everything is right,- said Kasparov applying to the "MN" editor". - I am shocked by the acquaintance with such person: imagine, Dadashev even predicted that the match will be interrupted and a lot of such things… If it is necessary, I will sign the interview, but I wouldn't like the publication". "And what you will say?" - asked Yakovlev from Dadashev. And he replied: "If world champion doesn't want the publication - I don't mind, decide yourself". Of course, there was no publication. But the action was continuing dashingly. In the entertaining form. According to new personal version of "MN" - at this time it was quickly published, - it appeared that not I with Dadashev, not by free will created, and not I gave the vice editor the primary source of "Revelation". No! Here is word by word: "the text of "Revelation" of Dadashev was received from the hands of A. Karpov". Later Kasparov specified in press: "The Dadashev material brought to the editorial office …A.E.Karpov". Where has brought! Anatoliy Evgenievich was quickly, with the all resoluteness of "MN", accused in making a not chess move. And all these was published on January 10, 1988, 12 days after the memorable "confrontation" in the form of indulgent-moralizing discussion about the violation of the laws of elementary ethics". Is not it dashing? At present time the Kasparov's book "Unlimited duel" is broadly sold in the country. It is known in West as a "Child of Changes" which was issued with D. Trelford as a co-author, he is the editor of English "Observer", at six languages. It was changed specially for Russian reader, and now it is by fact a new work. Kasparov still recognizes the big help to him from Dadashev during matches with Karpov in Moscow and Leningrad. But it is presented in another view, distorted, presented on a background of a bright auto portrait, and with fiction. Where is the truth? However, we should know it. Kasparov was ready to sign the "Revelation", he merely didn't want its publication. But now, after "Unlimited duel" appeared in bookshops such publication is merely necessary. If glastnost then glastnost for all and in equal conditions! We advise the reader to look through that "Revelation" which was taken as the basis and was updated with time capabilities to speak more freely. Kasparov in "Unlimited duel" justified the similar fact in the following way: "… two years passed, new events took place, interesting facts appeared". Right! Everyone will make his own decision… From here is the title of conversation with T. Dadashev - "Openly about hidden".
DADASHEV: You ask how everything started? In 1984 in Moscow in Kolonny Hall of Union House was taking place the match for the name of world champion in chess, I have been having rest in my motherland, in Azerbaijan. All people around were talking only about this match: Kasparov loses dry. And at once, I have been invited to the Central Committee of Republican Communist Party. "We don't understand what happens to Kasparov, they say. He wants to meet you. After the ninth play the score is 0:4". I replied that I am not wondered, that I expected it. After a few days I should leave for Moscow. I will try to go to match. Then I will decide whether I will meet him. The request wasn't pleasant. And the very first day of my arrival to Moscow, the head of Kasparov's delegation Mamedov called me: "Could you meet Garry? He is looking forward to meet you". To understand the following, I will have to tell you some peculiarities. I refused from the pass to the match, because it would mean seating in first row and attracting the attention. We came to Kolonny Hall with my assistant Sergyev with common billets a little earlier, 10 minutes before starting and took a seat in 13-th row. The 12-th play had to take place. There were a lot of spectators. The quarter of hall was under the label "Karpov's delegation". All places were engaged. 30-40 persons. The second quarter under the label "Kasparov's delegation" was empty. People just started to come to these places. Five men with wilted faces. The first Kasparov appeared on the scene. Took a seat at chess table. Pale, suppressed till the doom. After a few seconds Karpov came. Light, mobile. Smiled. Looked ahead. Confidently gave a hand. Kasparov took a look, hanged his hand and again put down his head. Our neighbor - spectator, the habitue of the match started to tell us how many well known people were seating before at the places for Kasparov's delegation, started to list the names of actors, artists, sportsmen, statesmen, mention Mikhail Botvinnik, the world ex-champion. Now they do not come. Only trainers and psychologist-doctor of sciences left. Only a few… I got excited. Karpov has a strong team. He lives in Moscow. The well known grostmasters help him. He is a champion! And this… deserted, disappointed. He will lose! Will lose dry. The moral wretchedness will take place. This time the play ended in a draw. I have been also at 13-th play. The same picture. I went to the press-center where grossmasters bring out ideas. And I thought that it is a good opportunity to transfer information to competing. Certainly they use it… In the evening again Mamedov called, he was alarmed. And I agreed to meet. I and my assistant were brought to the "Russia" hotel. There was Garry with his mother in the room. I asked his mother to leave us. And the Kasparov mother went out. Kasparov confessed: "Karpov is not only strong strategist, but he is also better in tactics". I asked: "Do you want me to help you? How?" Kasparov a little waited and replied: "At least to delay time". The world ex-champion Tall told me: "You will not win the match, but, leaving, you should slap by the door…". "It means that now when the score is 0:4, there is still a hope to slap by the door? And will it leave with the score 0:5, when the match goes till the six?" He even flinched back: "I merely will not go to the play!" "So, I will help when the score will be 0:5. And you will not lose the match". I felt that Kasparov didn't believe in my words and he started to complain that he feels bad. I have been listening to Kasparov and have been influencing him in my way…
QUESTION: I am sorry, what does it mean - "to influence"?
DADASHEV: It is when I give to a person a psychic energy with a great desire to help him. And, as a rule, people feel better.
QUESTION: Why you are not easily agree at such help as to Kasparov, put conditions? To him, for instance 0:5?
DADASHEV: Because the help itself is not simple for me. Especially when the destiny of two persons at least, as in this case, is solved. When I start to help I feel that this person with its destiny leaves in me, lives until the end of help. It takes a lot of forces, time. However, it is difficult to explain: the distance remains. Why 0:5? I saw that it would be so. And then, Kasparov will have nothing, just belief and hope connected with me. And I need it - complete trusting and diligence. Other advises hinder and my helps doesn't become effective. Let us say so: let trainers develop strategic ideas, but which tactics, the type of play to choose this day - I see it. But from me - my close person is my second "Me"… So I asked Kasparov to wait…5:0 in favor of Karpov. It is interesting, right? After a few days calls Mamedov and agitatedly asked me to come: after two hours the play will start and Garry refuses to go to it. In the hotel hall anxious Mamedov and panickly confused Kasparov's mother Clara Shagenovna, met me: "I beg you, save! It is terrible!" We came to the room. Garry was lying on the sofa. I asked him what happened. "I am afraid. I play with black. I feel - I will lose". I told: "Do not worry, I will be with you, the draw play will be". And it happened so. Before the 23-th play Kasparov's mother called me again, she was in maul feelings, asked to come to Pestovo to the country-base to look at trainers. They didn't work. One was raving, another started to drink, the third… I refused: "This time it is not necessary. He will lose. But do not tell him about it. He will stumble at a smooth place." She was afraid: "How?". After the defeat Kasparov called me: "Really, I felled at a smooth place. In equal positions I loosed vigilance. My mother told me everything then. Now it is 0:5 and I am completely at your disposal". I replied that I understand, that I will help. At the eve of the 28-th play I came to him with Sergyev. Kasparov's mother asked me: "Should I go out?". "Stay here. But in general, if I was the head of delegation I would send you to Baku. You make a nervous atmosphere. It doesn't help the job." Garry interfered: "We are always together." I agreed: "Let it be so. But I want everything to be clear. You are lucky, Garry, that you referred to me. I am that person who can change your destiny. There are three reasons why I will help you. We are from one Republic. Secondly - purely as a human. And the last - it is almost no matter - my sportive interest. Personally from you I don't need anything. Even the gratitude. And none should interfere. Including professor - hypnotist, who forces you (I know!) to repeat before each play: "I am strong, I will win…". Now how will I help. Make me the pass to the first row for me to see good you and Karpov. It will be more difficult for him to play, for you - easier. I will make for you a favorable background. Before each play call me, for you to know how to play to Karpov, depending of his condition. By the way, do not analyze the party after its end with Karpov at the scene. He "demagnetizes" you, and the situation can repeat…" And from the 28-th play Kasparov as a rule called me in the midday. I gave him advises. But I always mentioned him that whatever comes from me, he will play himself. In the rest there was not anything remarkable. I came to the hall, sat closer. Kasparov appeared at the scene. We looked at each other and it meant that everything remained as before.. The necessary to him psychological background has been created. And he started to play.
QUESTION: Which cases accompanies the 32-nd play? The Kasparov in this party got the first victory at last. How did you participate in it?
DADASHEV: I merely saw that he had to win. But I hadn't to tell him about it. Only his mother and driver Kolya knew about it. I asked him to come to walk to "Sokolniki" square. For him not to worry I told him: "Play a long time, if you will be in equal positions, don't stop the struggle. Today it is necessary." And he won.
QUESTION: It is a serious success. Do you know how specialists estimated the Kasparov position in the play before this? Grossmaster Liliental told: "Karpov imposed and dictates the course of play. He needs the victory and he will get it." And very figuratively Taimanov: "Imagine a person who is hanging over the abyss at one hand and you will get the full understanding of the condition in which Kasparov has been after the 27-th play". And what happened then?
DADASHEV: There was a lot of interesting. But I can't tell about everything. The 47-th Kasparov won even with black. In the evening he called me, gave thanks. I told him that I will not attend the 48-th, that I leave for Baku, already bought tickets. "How? - he was amazed, - You leave me?". I replied that the connection between us will not be loosed and he will win the play. And the match will be terminated. Kasparov didn't believe: "There was not such a thing in the history!" I had to repeat: "But it will be so! The match will be terminated".
QUESTION: That is right, he won the 48-th, after that the FIDE president interrupted the match and stopped it. It meant that Kasparov didn't lose that duel? And your promises to him took place? Were you satisfied with this achievement?
DADASEV: Not completely. You see, Kasparov didn't become a world champion and by FIDE decision in 2 September 1985 in Moscow had to take place a new match according to another regulations. It consisted from 24 plays. Starting score is 0:0. The winner will be the person who will first gain six victories or will get more than half of possible scores. When the score is draw the world champion title will get the previous leader, that is Karpov.
QUESTION: How you participated in the second match?
DADASHEV: There were a lot of psychological difficulties. Just as in life: from side - accidental and at the same time natural. Kasparov didn't call for a long time. But in the second match the Karpov started to win, the score was 2:1. Again Kasparov started to call me and the will to finish the job appeared in me. By Kasparov suggestion we met in the private residence at Lenin avenue. On the eve of the sixth play he was quite confused, asked to help him. Near him his mother was nervousing. "All right, - I told her. -Take the pen and write. 6, 7, 8 are draw plays. I will be present at them. Then I will go to Baku. Here are the telephones, call exactly in the appointed time… I will come to the 15-th. Before 15-th will be draw plays and one victory of Garry. The score will become equal - 2:2. After the 15-th the change in your advantage will take place. And I congratulate you, soon you will be the mother of the world champion. Only, if your team…". She interrupted me: "Thank you. But why your, not ours?" I explained: "The semi-official relations have developed between us. It fits me. I do not belong to anyone, and it shouldn't wonder you if one day I will even start helping to your son's rivalry…". After I returned to Moscow to the 15-th play, I immediately called: "I will not be present at the play. Today will be draw". After the play Kasparov called me. I asked him if he remembers the notation that the change in match will take place? He replied that of coarse he remembers. "And which play comes after 15-th ", - I asked. "The 17-th", - he replied. "Why?" "I play with black!" - "No, - I objected - after the 15-th comes 16-th!" "Tofik Gasanovich, I play it with black. Should I risk?" "Do not risk. It will not be needed. Play a long time. The victory will come." I have been present at that 16-th play. Kasparov won it. He also wined the 19-th. After that party I had a supper with my assistant. Two of us. I told to Sergyev just in thinking: "Kasparov will not call me. But it will be his mistake." He wondered. Kasparov really called me only after the 20-th play which he played very difficult and could hardly get draw. "You made a mistake, Garry", - I told him, - "Now I am forced to make an open move, as speak in chess: you will lose the 22-nd play". He strongly objected: "No! I even guess right the Karpov moves…" And the first time I advised Kasparov to meet. OK, I thought I will leave you on the will of destiny. I warned that I will not help him in this play. May be he will understand… I didn't want him to lose. I didn't go - I plodded to the match. There was no my fault in his defeat in the 22-nd play.
QUESTION: The dramatic situation has been created, right? Only two plays left. If Karpov wines one play, then he becomes a champion.
DADASHEV: Yes. Right. Everyone understood it. The situation even become more aggravated when the 23-rd play finished in a draw and the last play left. And I understood the call of anxious Kasparov to me: "The 24-th is coming! Do you understand?" "Do not worry, - I told. Garry, - I will be with you. You will win". He was excited. "What are you telling?! I play with blacks. The decisive play. I will not risk, I need the draw play!" I stopped him: "I don't know how that system is called. But I see it. Take the three horizontal lines and move there as you want, but do not allow any figure to move ahead. Karpov will press at you terribly. The main thing is not to flinch. The very difficult moment will take place. Karpov will risk, will move at you and will open itself. And you will win "the match". My friend mayor Kuryanov was present during this conversation and he knew Kasparov personally. He shaked his head: "Is not it risky?" The last 24-th play started and Kasparov didn't move out of that three lines. But I have been excited and decided to drink coffee in refreshment room with Sergyev. The head trainer of Kasparov - Nikitin came to us: "What is Garry doing?! Very difficult situation! We prepared for him one thing, and he plays the other. The situation is critical!" But… Kasparov won. He become the world champion.
QUESTION: Came the third match. Revenge. What can you say about it?
DADASHEV: I refused of the Kasparovs' suggestion to go with them to London match. They were upset. But left me in lines - for the "intimidation". I told them that they are worrying for nothing, because in general it will not be difficult in the London's half of match. But in the second half of match in Leningrad - it will be difficult. That is comparing with two previous matches - everything vice-versa. And really at the 16-th play Kasparov has been three scores ahead. But from the previous match the 22-nd play didn't leave me calm, it just blamed me in something, although I wasn't guilty that Kasparov loosed it. In general in two matches I helped him in thirty seven parties. He didn't lose any play with me. But that ill-fated play I have given back on will of destiny.In Leningrad Karpov won strongly three plays - 17, 18 and 19-th. The score become equal. In 20 and 21-st were draw plays.
QUESTION: Does the fatal number 22 means something for you? Because the dramatic moment repeats again: the 22-nd play is coming. Again 22-nd! From remained (24-th is the last!). Karpov has only one play to win and he will gain revenge…
DADASHEV: Each person has its own destiny and outlook. Everything private I leave for myself and don't impose to anyone. You would better listen what happened then and then make the conclusions. At this difficult moment Kasparovs started to look for me, they even called to my assistant's wife to find me urgently. And it happened so that at the eve of the 22-nd play I came to Moscow from Kiev. Sergyev gives me the Leningrad phones of Kasparovs and I call them. Clara Shagenovna picked up the receiver become happy. She called Garry. He told: "Karpov started to play better". I ask: "Do you need me?". Kasparov faltered:" Yes… but do you have time? ". The close presence of that 22-nd play just pushed me. "All right - I replied - today I leave for Leningrad by "Krasnaya Strela. Meet me in the morning ". At night on my way I have been thinking about what can happen. And almost for sure! 22-nd play is draw, 23-rd Karpov wines with whites. 24-th is draw. And Karpov gains revenge. At the railway station the driver Kolya met me and Sergyev. We got in to a car: "How is Garry's mood?" Driver smiled: "Now it is good. After your call he has been playing billiards with me until 2 o'clock at night. Was joicking". "And what is in the team?" - specified I. Kolya told that the dim case occurred. It is suspected that trainer Vladimirov gave information to Karpov about their ideas and developments. They forced him to go off. I saw that Vladimirov two times. Even didn't speak to him. He is a person who respects himself and demands the same from others. It was very unpleasant that they did such a thing to him. We came to the place around 10 o'clock in the morning. The painful feeling didn't leave me. Clara Shagenovna came out. She gave out the same information. Karpov wins because he gets all information from Vladimirov. She was speaking hard. And I understood why they did so to Vladimirov. The match was coming to its end. The Kasparov had to have the advantage. And at once the score become equal when they expected the early victory. To justify themselves they started to accuse another person who wanted to leave them himself. It is such a difficult accusation - the treachery! And how easily they did it! I asked to tell Kasparov that he shouldn't think so about Vladimirov, that Vladimirov couldn't make such a thing. But everything remained as it was. I told that will meet Garry right before the beginning of the 22-nd play. The Nikitin came. The delegation members gathered. They were speaking abstractedly: about London, about other subjects. But everyone has been anxious. I asked to order the tickets to Moscow. Nikitin asked anxiously: "Did you come for only one day? And leave us? Today Garry plays with whites. You would better come at the 23-rd play, when Karpov will play with whites. It will be difficult." I replied that yes, it can be difficult. But it will not be. I came to the 22-nd play for the 23-rd not to take place. I and Sergyev met Kasparov when he was going to go to the play. I told him: "Garry, today you have to win. Remember that 22-nd. That is why I came!" Kasparov spread his hands: "I remember. But I am not ready for the big play… Wait a moment, you excited me very much, I will go to another room". When he returned I told him: "Garry, play till the end. And believe, - you will win!" I and Sergyev came to the play a little later. During five minutes 15 moves were made! Kasparov played excellently. Karpov returned him wonderfully. The play was postponed with the effective victory of Kasparov. When we came to the private residence he told in the presence of all gathered people that he sees the victory. And he presented me his picture with the inscription: "To the Tofik Gasanovich Dadashev for the memory about the great change at the 22-nd play of the match -revenge. With the great gratitude for the invaluable moral support. Kasparov. Leningrad. 3 October, 1986." Garry was in very good mood. He told everyone: "I had a presentiment and planned in advance that I will win this play". I have been in train and there was a double feeling. The satisfaction: the victory is achieved, I have saved the man for the big sport. And from another side I felt the injustice which was made toward Karpov. I didn't have a remorse about the first and second matches. But was it necessary in the third…
QUESTION: Was it difficult to help Kasparov?
DADASHEV: It was easy to work with him. He delicately felt all my advises and excellently executed them, without mistakes and defeats.
QUESTION: Did you treated him? As in "Unlimited duel".
DADASHEV: Not even such things will find in Kasparov's essay. For instance, he tells that I have been "fighting with aura" of well known extrasensory person who was with Karpov (there was no any aura), that in 1987 before the match in Seville I gave interview to "Spiegel" about three advises to Karpov of how to fight with Kasparov and win him (fabrication) that my prognoses didn't take place (the next fiction), which deprived me from the great fame… And so on. In general it is a "Unlimited Fiction".
QUESTION: But was there your prognosis?
DADASHEV: I predicted at different times three things. First of all, Karpov will not lose the match . then. 23-rd penultimate play he will win and will chalk up. Karpov will play it multilaterally in Kasparov's style, he will not bear it, will be clever by half and will lose it. And at last. The last 24-th play Karpov will play languidly and weakly, instead of being assembled and will lose it. Everything came true! As a result the draw and the world champion title left with Kasparov.
QUESTION: I see… but did other creative talents came to you for the help to win at the international level?
DADASHEV: - Yes. And results were excellent. But it is better to speak about it later. Now I am busy with other things. I could create in Baku my center of charitable parapsychological help "PSIEKS". For everyone to be able to solve only his unique problem, to recover its own health, to increase its spiritual protection. You should agree that it is not simple and requires the complete feedback of forces, enthusiasm. I don't even have time for chess, two help to Kasparov or Karpov. They have a new duel this time. And… thank you for the attention.